Breaking the Stigma: A Conversation with Kevin Fischer, Executive Director of NAMI MI
By Jason Robertson, BA, Senior Marketing Specialist, MI Mind
Stigma remains one of the biggest barriers to mental health care, preventing individuals from seeking the support they need. In this candid conversation, Kevin Fischer, Executive Director of NAMI Michigan, shares his personal and professional insights into how stigma shapes the experience of those living with mental illness. From the impact on health care access to the power of storytelling in breaking down misconceptions, Fischer emphasizes the urgent need for open conversations and systemic change. Join us as we explore his thoughts on normalizing mental health discussions, addressing biases, and fostering a culture of acceptance and support.
Jason Robertson
You've been deeply involved in mental health advocacy for many years now, both personally and professionally, how has stigma shaped your experience along the way?
Kevin Fischer
You know, stigma has taught me how hard it is to live with a mental illness and/or to experience suicidal ideation.
I learned directly from my late son Dominique how hard it is to recognize that something is not right emotionally or mentally and how much bravery it takes to ask for help, not just from random people in the community, but also from your family, your friends, and your loved ones. Why? Because once people learn about a mental illness diagnosis their view of that person instantly changes. It makes it so hard for a person to seek treatment or to remain compliant with their treatment because they're always looking over their shoulders and they're always trying to hide their diagnosis because of the stigma.
Jason Robertson
What is your experience with stigma in the healthcare setting?
Kevin Fischer
Well, first, we're getting better, but physical health care and behavioral health care still exist in significant silos. You go to one building for your physical care, and if it's determined that you have a behavioral health care issue, you can't in most cases receive treatment in the same location. You must go somewhere else and it's stigmatizing to many people to go to a building that literally says mental health on the signage. That is a challenge for many people because of the stigma associated with mental illness. Many won't seek treatment because they don't want to be seen walking through that door.
Second, there is no stigma associated with someone going to their primary care doctor for an annual physical or for any other reason. Nobody looks at them any differently for doing that. But, if they say they must go see their psychiatrist, their psychologist, or they have to go to community mental health, then people look at them very differently. That's stigmatizing.
Jason Robertson
If you could make a big meaningful change in the system to reduce stigma, where would you start? What would it be?
Kevin Fischer
Honestly, I'd start with having the kind of conversation we're having right now, and I'd like to see us have this conversation at medical schools. I’d like to see us have this conversation at medical conferences. The first step to eradicating stigma is simply normalizing the conversation. Literally addressing that stigma does in fact impact us all. It doesn't matter how well educated you are, it doesn't matter how nice a house you live in. It doesn't matter if you're Democrat or Republican. None of that matters.
Jason Robertson
What are some of the biggest misconceptions or biases that you see as it relates to mental illness, whether it's amongst healthcare professionals or just anyone in general? What are you seeing out there?
Kevin Fischer
You know the biggest bias is most people think mental illness is a choice or they think it is a weakness of character or faith. Most people don't recognize that mental illness is a medical condition and a medical diagnosis that requires medical treatment. Just like any physical illness. So that is one of the huge biases that I see. It's “your” fault. Like it’s a choice. No one chooses to have a mental illness.
Jason Robertson
From a cultural competency perspective. How, if at all, is it different for communities of color as it relates to stigma?
Kevin Fischer
Mental illness and stigma don't discriminate. There's stigma in every community, but stigma varies by community and culture. There's a deepening stigma within the African American community because of all the other cultural challenges we face, but in other communities:
Asian Community Hispanic community; the Muslim community; stigma, frankly, is even deeper.
Once you start having the conversation, it's like a domino effect. Once people know that it's OK not to be OK, that it's OK to raise my hand and say, yes, I have a mental health challenge. Then they will seek that help. That's what we have to do in every community to destigmatize mental illness and encourage people to seek the help.
We can't assume that there's a one-size-fits-all approach or solution to this, but I believe to a great degree, maybe not a total degree, but to a great degree, that you don't have to look like me to be able to relate to me or to be able to provide me with treatment in my own life.
Jason Robertson
How important do you believe it is for people with lived experience to share their story? And what kind of impact do you think that has?
Kevin Fischer
It makes a huge impact because it humanizes what most people don't understand and are afraid of. The only way we get there is that people like me and people who live with behavioral healthcare challenges have a willingness and ability to share their stories.
Storytelling is incredibly important because we must demystify and de stigmatize mental illness and the only way we can do that is by people with lived experience telling their stories. We have to humanize this, and the only way we can do that is through storytelling.